What is the essential role of computers or the Internet? Textbooks plus occasional teach-yourself bootstrap manuals are sufficient to learn pretty much anything as it is. If the problem is getting feedback, it looks more like a problem of creating high-quality thematic forums, this doesn’t fit in the format of a course, especially for standard stuff.
What is the essential role of computers or the Internet? Textbooks plus occasional teach-yourself bootstrap manuals are sufficient to learn pretty much anything as it is. If the problem is getting feedback, it looks more like a problem of creating high-quality thematic forums, this doesn’t fit in the format of a course, especially for standard stuff.
Textbooks have numerous limitations for learning, and the most serious one, compared to a university course, is that a textbook is not going to certify your learning. In some/most countries you cannot be an engineer, a doctor, a dentist, and so on, without taking the courses. What good does it do to learn dentistry on your own, if you can’t be a dentist?
A textbook is fine,but it does not come with a final exam and a set of homeworks. These must be updated regularly which is easy on the Web. In practice, textbooks are not always available or not always of the right level or quality. Many textbooks lack a large number of solved problems—these are supposed to be provided by the lecturer.
What about timely information? Textbooks are rarely updated every year… your 5-year old textbook on database theory is probably still good today, but it may not say much about the currently fashionable topics…
What about integration with Wikipedia? What about linking to published papers (PDF files)? What about integration of videos (YouTube, Google Video…)… Integration of other multimedia content (flickr)… integration with blogs on the topic…
For numerous purposes, online courses are far superior to a textbook… and again, merely owning a textbook is not going to get you a job.
Vladimir Nesovsays:
Just as learning, certification could be extracted from the course format (and condensed to a necessary minimum). Why do you need teaching part at all, and if you do, why do it in a course format? (I meant textbook as an example, not as a bound on media.)
Students taking my Information Retrieval graduate course can ask any question they like. However, there are very few “original questions” that may arise and that nobody has ever thought up. Students who first learn some material are quite predictable. Heck! Even researchers are quite predictable in their questions!
Moreover, once I learn of such a question, I quickly integrate it to the material so that the next student will get the answer without having to ask.
Consider also that I link to a massive number of resources (research articles, wikipedia, and so on). These contain a lot of very good answers.
There are, yes, some questions that are better answered by a Ph.D. holder. And indeed, that is precisely one of the reasons I have a job. These questions include the resolution of contradictions. What if one reference you provide says something, and another says something else? A student might not be able to figure a way out.
ask the instructor to repeat themselves in a different way?
Sometimes students require a different formulation. It is provided, and once done, it is added to the content of the course, dynamically.
Typically, however, what the students really want is an example or two or three… once you have provided these, you are pretty much set.
Maybe this works for certain subjects (basic programming comes to mind) but I can’t see it working well for more advanced ones.
Well, advanced topics require a more advanced instructors. It is best that graduate courses are taught by subject experts, preferably with some research experience in the field.
However, advanced topics work better online than basic ones. I would never try to teach kids how to read online… but teaching Theoretical Computer Science or Nuclear Physics online is comparatively much easier. In some cases, linking to the research articles might be enough if you have really advanced students…!
The same holds true for e-commerce. Basic shopping (milk, bread) works better offline… but fancy shopping (some computer part) works better online.
Jonathan Katzsays:
Are you seriously claiming that the only advantage of learning from a teacher vs. learning from a textbook or on-line materials is the “strong emotional bound to peers and a teacher”? How about the advantage of being able to ask any questions you like, or being able to ask the instructor to repeat themselves in a different way?
Maybe this works for certain subjects (basic programming comes to mind) but I can’t see it working well for more advanced ones.
Miguel: Online courses are no different evaluation-wise than traditional courses. The students does some homework and he hands it in. When applicable, he has to write an exam in some designated room at some designated time and he has to bring some ID.
E-commerce and automatic teller have not increased fraud. They bring about different types of cheating, and they may allow more sophisticated cheating techniques, but the problems are fundamentally the same.
Who is this person? Did this person do the work? How do I know that this ID is legitimate? What proof do I have that this person really master the material?
These are hard questions.
University professors, at least in research institutions, do not have much time to hunt down cheaters. So cheating will happen. Online or not.
Miguelsays:
In this context, how do you evaluate your students and (most important) how do you prevent fraud?
Anonymoussays:
I like the article, but I think you’re using the wrong comparison; online classes should be compared to online jobs rather than teller or bookstore transactions. I believe that online jobs are still a limited development for the same reasons as online classes. There is a lot more human interaction that goes on at a typical workplace or classroom than at a typical teller window or bookstore counter.
learn me nowsays:
the education industry will hate and hampper every effort to establish on-line education ..
What is the essential role of computers or the Internet? Textbooks plus occasional teach-yourself bootstrap manuals are sufficient to learn pretty much anything as it is. If the problem is getting feedback, it looks more like a problem of creating high-quality thematic forums, this doesn’t fit in the format of a course, especially for standard stuff.
What is the essential role of computers or the Internet? Textbooks plus occasional teach-yourself bootstrap manuals are sufficient to learn pretty much anything as it is. If the problem is getting feedback, it looks more like a problem of creating high-quality thematic forums, this doesn’t fit in the format of a course, especially for standard stuff.
Textbooks have numerous limitations for learning, and the most serious one, compared to a university course, is that a textbook is not going to certify your learning. In some/most countries you cannot be an engineer, a doctor, a dentist, and so on, without taking the courses. What good does it do to learn dentistry on your own, if you can’t be a dentist?
A textbook is fine,but it does not come with a final exam and a set of homeworks. These must be updated regularly which is easy on the Web. In practice, textbooks are not always available or not always of the right level or quality. Many textbooks lack a large number of solved problems—these are supposed to be provided by the lecturer.
What about timely information? Textbooks are rarely updated every year… your 5-year old textbook on database theory is probably still good today, but it may not say much about the currently fashionable topics…
What about integration with Wikipedia? What about linking to published papers (PDF files)? What about integration of videos (YouTube, Google Video…)… Integration of other multimedia content (flickr)… integration with blogs on the topic…
For numerous purposes, online courses are far superior to a textbook… and again, merely owning a textbook is not going to get you a job.
Just as learning, certification could be extracted from the course format (and condensed to a necessary minimum). Why do you need teaching part at all, and if you do, why do it in a course format? (I meant textbook as an example, not as a bound on media.)
Vladimir: Teaching is an open-ended term. I teach Google Mail to recognize my spam. Life teaches you lesson.
Now. Do you need an individual teaching you something so that you can learn? No! That was the whole point of my post!
Jonathan:
being able to ask any questions you like
Students taking my Information Retrieval graduate course can ask any question they like. However, there are very few “original questions” that may arise and that nobody has ever thought up. Students who first learn some material are quite predictable. Heck! Even researchers are quite predictable in their questions!
Moreover, once I learn of such a question, I quickly integrate it to the material so that the next student will get the answer without having to ask.
Consider also that I link to a massive number of resources (research articles, wikipedia, and so on). These contain a lot of very good answers.
There are, yes, some questions that are better answered by a Ph.D. holder. And indeed, that is precisely one of the reasons I have a job. These questions include the resolution of contradictions. What if one reference you provide says something, and another says something else? A student might not be able to figure a way out.
ask the instructor to repeat themselves in a different way?
Sometimes students require a different formulation. It is provided, and once done, it is added to the content of the course, dynamically.
Typically, however, what the students really want is an example or two or three… once you have provided these, you are pretty much set.
Jonathan:
Maybe this works for certain subjects (basic programming comes to mind) but I can’t see it working well for more advanced ones.
Well, advanced topics require a more advanced instructors. It is best that graduate courses are taught by subject experts, preferably with some research experience in the field.
However, advanced topics work better online than basic ones. I would never try to teach kids how to read online… but teaching Theoretical Computer Science or Nuclear Physics online is comparatively much easier. In some cases, linking to the research articles might be enough if you have really advanced students…!
The same holds true for e-commerce. Basic shopping (milk, bread) works better offline… but fancy shopping (some computer part) works better online.
Are you seriously claiming that the only advantage of learning from a teacher vs. learning from a textbook or on-line materials is the “strong emotional bound to peers and a teacher”? How about the advantage of being able to ask any questions you like, or being able to ask the instructor to repeat themselves in a different way?
Maybe this works for certain subjects (basic programming comes to mind) but I can’t see it working well for more advanced ones.
Miguel: Online courses are no different evaluation-wise than traditional courses. The students does some homework and he hands it in. When applicable, he has to write an exam in some designated room at some designated time and he has to bring some ID.
E-commerce and automatic teller have not increased fraud. They bring about different types of cheating, and they may allow more sophisticated cheating techniques, but the problems are fundamentally the same.
Who is this person? Did this person do the work? How do I know that this ID is legitimate? What proof do I have that this person really master the material?
These are hard questions.
University professors, at least in research institutions, do not have much time to hunt down cheaters. So cheating will happen. Online or not.
In this context, how do you evaluate your students and (most important) how do you prevent fraud?
I like the article, but I think you’re using the wrong comparison; online classes should be compared to online jobs rather than teller or bookstore transactions. I believe that online jobs are still a limited development for the same reasons as online classes. There is a lot more human interaction that goes on at a typical workplace or classroom than at a typical teller window or bookstore counter.
the education industry will hate and hampper every effort to establish on-line education ..